2010年3月29日

Agileにおける学びと守・破・離

Agile/Lean界をリードする4人がtwitter上で知識労働のコンテキストにおける学びについて語りあっていたので、ちょっとトゥギャっておきます。守・破・離とドレイファスモデルの対比なども面白いですね。 特にハッシュタグとかもついていないので適当に拾い集めています。洩れてるtweetもあるかもしれません。
1
Mike Cottmeyer @mcottmeyer

Interesting Post... How "Agile" Is The Concept of Scrum? http://bit.ly/ctpiD6

2010-03-28 22:46:28
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

@mcottmeyer this blog points out one of my chief problems with scrum-inflexibility w/o guidance when it is in places it won't work.

2010-03-28 23:34:32
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

if there is not a one size fits all set of practices, it's reasonable to ask where practices don't fit.

2010-03-28 23:36:28
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

then it's reasonable to ask where scrum practices don't fit without being accused of bashing it.

2010-03-28 23:36:49
Mike Cottmeyer @mcottmeyer

@alshalloway Yeah, I agree. I think Scrum is more flexible than many allow. It's the lack of guidance when the vanilla version fails.

2010-03-29 00:14:42
Mike Cottmeyer @mcottmeyer

@alshalloway I've got a blog post hopped up that will hopefully start some discussion around that.

2010-03-29 00:15:17
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

@mcottmeyer agreed. And the insistence that one must do it by the book at first. Sorry, don't agree with Shu Ha Ri in knowledge based work.

2010-03-29 02:21:24
Bob "The Disruptor" Marshall ♥️💎 @flowchainsensei

@alshalloway @mcottmeyer How do you see Shu Ha Ri differing from e.g. Dreyfus Model? Esp in context of knowledge work?

2010-03-29 03:01:08
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

@flowchainsensei i believe a combination of dreyfuss and schook models are necessary. start by doing with understanding of principles

2010-03-29 03:13:10
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

@flowchainsensei coach can tailor practices to your situation. but you need to understand why he's doing what he's doing

2010-03-29 03:13:33
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

@flowchainsensei kanban as transition model works because can start where you are, but use principles of WIP management to move forward

2010-03-29 03:13:51
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

@flowchainsensei shu ha ri is best justification for needing a consultant to help you for a long time i can think of.

2010-03-29 03:14:22
Bob "The Disruptor" Marshall ♥️💎 @flowchainsensei

@alshalloway "coach can tailor practices..." do you mean coaching practices, or e.g. agile practices?

2010-03-29 03:15:27
Bob "The Disruptor" Marshall ♥️💎 @flowchainsensei

@alshalloway I think shu ha ri applies just as much to self-teaching as to studying under a guru or master.

2010-03-29 03:18:42
Mike Cottmeyer @mcottmeyer

@alshalloway @flowchainsensei Funny that you took the discussion in the Shu-Ha-Ri direction. My next post is going to explore that a bit.

2010-03-29 04:12:38
Mike Cottmeyer @mcottmeyer

@flowchainsensei I tend to generalize them into the same basic idea. Learning is a progression.

2010-03-29 05:32:56
Alistair Cockburn @TotherAlistair

@flowchainsensei @alshalloway @mcottmeyer Shu-Ha-Ri is 3 levels; Dreyfus 5 levels for the same thing, harder to remember, no great advantage

2010-03-29 12:19:48
Alistair Cockburn @TotherAlistair

@alshalloway @mcottmeyer "don't agree with Shu Ha Ri in knowledge based work". Interesting view, I see it the same. What's wrong/missing?

2010-03-29 12:20:59
Alistair Cockburn @TotherAlistair

@alshalloway re:"one of my chief problems with X w/o guidance when it is in places it won't work" Where is an X where it will? I think none.

2010-03-29 12:25:29
Alistair Cockburn @TotherAlistair

@flowchainsensei I vote also for out-of-band experiements, because there's a known fall-back pattern.

2010-03-29 12:32:43
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

@TotherAlistair dreyfus doesn't make a big fuss about just do it. Software is not like the karate kid scene of wax on wax off

2010-03-29 13:22:44
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