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2012年4月25日

TobiasとDavidのKanban談義

Jim Coplienの記事を読んだTobias MayerのつぶやきをきっかけにDavid Andersonほか愉快な仲間たちがKanbanについてやりとりをしていたので、とりあえず拾ってみた。
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Tobias Mayer @tobiasmayer

Interesting... "The foundations of Scrum encourage one-piece continuous flow." — An Alternative to Kanban by @jcoplien http://t.co/17EdsAcC

2012-04-25 09:30:43
Tobias Mayer @tobiasmayer

"Kanban (the methodology) discourages teamwork and increases the risk of not completing agreed work..." http://t.co/17EdsAcC

2012-04-25 09:33:26
Tobias Mayer @tobiasmayer

"Kanban: A Good Fit for Teams that View Work as Firefighting" http://t.co/17EdsAcC

2012-04-25 09:34:25
Tim Wingfield @timwingfield

@tobiasmayer should retitle the article to, "Look over there! Kanban is killing kittens!!"

2012-04-25 09:37:23
Tobias Mayer @tobiasmayer

Interesting 2011 article about the misuse of Kanban, and the misunderstanding of flow by Ja... http://t.co/xjN1LPDt

2012-04-25 09:40:29
Tobias Mayer @tobiasmayer

@timwingfield well, read the whole quote, and the rest of the article... and the comments before freaking out. C'mon!

2012-04-25 09:41:56
Tobias Mayer @tobiasmayer

@cyetain Again, read the whole quote, and the rest of the article... and the comments before freaking out. C'mon!

2012-04-25 09:42:15
Tim Wingfield @timwingfield

@tobiasmayer I did…and I'm not really freaking out. It just read very us v them, and a little salesman-ish.

2012-04-25 09:43:58
Tim Wingfield @timwingfield

@tobiasmayer and the "one piece continuous flow" idea is right out of Kanban. Both systems are tools to write software.

2012-04-25 09:47:09
Jabe Bloom @cyetain

@tobiasmayer oh believe me I have read the article… I don't like the quote in or our of context :-P

2012-04-25 09:59:27
Jeff Anderson @thomasjeffrey

@tobiasmayer - that article seemed almost deliberate in its intent to muddle and obfuscate what Kanban is and why we use it | @cyetain

2012-04-25 10:59:02
Tobias Mayer @tobiasmayer

@thomasjeffrey @cyetain It was certainly a pedantic article, but I doubt it was intended to obfuscate. Perhaps ask @jcoplien his intention.

2012-04-25 11:33:56
Amelie Turgeon @amelieturgeon

@tobiasmayer ... or for teams who are forced to do so. As maintenance teams. You can't commit to work in the next [timeframe].

2012-04-25 11:54:20
Tobias Mayer @tobiasmayer

@amelieturgeon That's not my quote, but I do agree that maintenance/support teams shouldn't be time-boxed. The work is interrupt-driven.

2012-04-25 12:15:58
Amelie Turgeon @amelieturgeon

@tobiasmayer I already read the article. And I'm pretty much in favor of ideas in it. Learned much about Kanban in it.

2012-04-25 12:20:31
Tobias Mayer @tobiasmayer

@cyetain Many of the Kanban boards I've seen do seem to show a silo'd approach, with different columns for design|dev|test. Team-oriented?

2012-04-25 12:23:33
Andrew McDavid @agilemanager

@tobiasmayer @cyetain Kanban boards are supposed to reflect the current reality.

2012-04-25 12:24:55
Andrew McDavid @agilemanager

@tobiasmayer you appear to have the wrong mind set. Kanban is not a process but something you do to a(n existing) process /cc @cyetain

2012-04-25 12:26:11
Tobias Mayer @tobiasmayer

@agilemanager So, they change over time as workers become more collaborative? Assuming this is a goal. Is it? /@cyetain

2012-04-25 12:36:42
Andrew McDavid @agilemanager

@tobiasmayer @cyetain yes. we've been seeing examples of this since 2007

2012-04-25 12:38:23
Tobias Mayer @tobiasmayer

@agilemanager I understand that. And I'm interested in the then-what. Much written about map the process, less about what follows /@cyetain

2012-04-25 12:38:26
Andrew McDavid @agilemanager

@tobiasmayer @cyetain more books about #kanban will appear in the next few years. However, the core idea is an evolutionary approach.

2012-04-25 12:40:05
Andrew McDavid @agilemanager

@tobiasmayer w/ an evolutionary approach there is no planned outcome or target process. Hence we don't manage against that way /cc @snowded

2012-04-25 12:41:34
Tobias Mayer @tobiasmayer

@agilemanager Have example boards? I imagine they look like Scrum boards ;) ...rather than e.g. http://t.co/gfB2KpWu, http://t.co/jWUFB06i

2012-04-25 12:42:47
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