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2014年4月27日

【TDDを再定義したほうがいいって話だったのさ】UncleBob, Martinfowler, DHHのツイートまとめ

TDD is Dead からはじまった3者のツイートをまとめました。 ざっくりまとめなので、もれとか関係ない奴がはいっているかもです。 DHHが言及しているこの動画いいですよ。 続きを読む
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Dave Thomas @pragdave

@unclebobmartin "Fundamentalism is the demand for a strict adherence to orthodox theological doctrines…" Seems to me @dhh chose a mot juste

2014-04-26 14:52:36
Uncle Bob Martin @unclebobmartin

@pragdave Since there’s no Theos involved with TDD; that definition does not apply. His use of the term is, and is meant to be, offensive.

2014-04-26 22:01:14
Dave Thomas @pragdave

@unclebobmartin there are no kalashnikovs in TTD either, but you choose that definition. I think it's clear @dhh meant following blindly.

2014-04-26 22:33:06
Brice Ruth @bdruth

.@pragdave not using TDD or a better alternative seems equivalent to 'I don't believe in science' @unclebobmartin @dhh

2014-04-26 23:31:53
DHH @dhh

@bdruth @pragdave @unclebobmartin Requiring test-first as the driver of design or you "don't believe science" is exactly the fundamentalism.

2014-04-26 23:38:07
DHH @dhh

@bdruth @unclebobmartin @pragdave "Writing your unit tests after the fact is not TDD. It has nothing to do with it", https://t.co/TtmBUiYsYN

2014-04-26 23:54:03
DHH @dhh

@bdruth @unclebobmartin @pragdave "Writing your unit tests after the fact is not TDD. Has nothing to do with it", https://t.co/TtmBUiYsYN

2014-04-26 23:54:43
DHH @dhh

Additional context for TDD is dead: "Writing your unit tests after the fact is not TDD. Has nothing to do with TDD", https://t.co/TtmBUiYsYN

2014-04-26 23:57:40
DHH @dhh

I completely agree with @unclebobmartin that you shouldn't be afraid of your code, but differ strongly on the tactics to get there.

2014-04-26 23:58:38
DHH @dhh

"Every line of code as written as a result of a failing test" is just not an approach I find helpful. Neither is "decouple all slow" mantra.

2014-04-26 23:59:47
DHH @dhh

@bdruth @unclebobmartin @pragdave Bob says TDD = Test-First. I say Test-First leads me places I don't want to go, thus TDD is dead to me.

2014-04-27 00:00:36
DHH @dhh

@bdruth @unclebobmartin @pragdave So by defining TDD so narrowly, as in "only test-first", leads to its demise amongst many.

2014-04-27 00:01:36
DHH @dhh

@bdruth @unclebobmartin @pragdave Yes, I've heard the sermons. Now we're back to square one.

2014-04-27 00:02:21
DHH @dhh

@bdruth @unclebobmartin @pragdave My talk had examples. Have a look at that.

2014-04-27 00:05:29
DHH @dhh

You're probably sick of hearing about testing. That's actually what inspired me. Sick of having every code design talk center around tests.

2014-04-27 00:08:28
DHH @dhh

And sick of having every unclear architectural setup or pattern misapplication justified by "the tests made me do it", "it makes tests fast"

2014-04-27 00:09:36
DHH @dhh

Jack TDDer: Sympathetic to the ideals of testing, not hung up on specific practices like test-first or mock-for-speed http://t.co/pGn9JAiH6l

2014-04-27 00:21:23
DHH @dhh

@ketzusaka Yes, that's the dogma I'm pushing back against. "easy to test" = "you're doing it right" = "good code". Nope.

2014-04-27 02:17:45
DHH @dhh

@ketzusaka I think test-first often leads to bad/convoluted designs. I think over-focus on test speed does the same. Two main tenets of TDD.

2014-04-27 02:27:23
DHH @dhh

@ketzusaka Where I concur is with the value of having automated regression suite and confidence in changing your code.

2014-04-27 02:28:05
Uncle Bob Martin @unclebobmartin

@dhh @bdruth @pragdave Who has demanded that TDD is required as the driver of design? Tests are one among many such drivers.

2014-04-27 05:25:54
DHH @dhh

@wanzuhao Tests are wonderful. Better tests are more wonderful. Thanks for helping!

2014-04-27 06:10:29
DHH @dhh

@thatrubylove Thanks. We all err from time to time. Tackle the ball, not the man, as they say. s/ball/idea/g. All good.

2014-04-27 06:14:22
DHH @dhh

@thatrubylove I'd appreciate if your post would reflect that stance.

2014-04-27 06:15:19
DHH @dhh

@unclebobmartin @bdruth @pragdave Traditional TDD is sold primarily as a design tool, secondarily as regression protection. Many bought it.

2014-04-27 06:20:14
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コメント

ぎゃばん@手洗い @ledsun 2014年4月27日
IMOやIMHOは「in my (humble) opinion 私の(つまらない)意見だけど.」の略語らしい。
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