2010年6月28日

Alan ShallowayとRon JeffriesのScrum/Kanban論議

今日一日でAlan Shalloway氏とRon Jeffries氏が面白い議論をやりあっていたので、トゥギャっておきます。 #途中で他の人も絡んでいたりするのですが、二人のやりとりに絞っています。
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Ron Jeffries @RonJeffries

@alshalloway for most teams, Kanban vs Scrum is like aiming for right eye vs left eye while the org has the gun pointed the wrong direction

2010-06-28 04:40:25
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

@RonJeffries true. & kanban helps the org aim better than scrum. i don't care so much what a team uses. up to the team

2010-06-28 04:50:57
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

@RonJeffries but when an org sends ppl to a csm class to figure out agile they are usually committing the org to the wrong approach

2010-06-28 04:51:41
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

@RonJeffries my complaint is not with scrum as much as with a team approach being hawked to the enterprise.

2010-06-28 04:52:13
Ron Jeffries @RonJeffries

@alshalloway i prefer a forward-going approach. the infighting may help one agile company vs another. does not help the world IMO.

2010-06-28 04:55:47
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

@RonJeffries at least 5 things that'll have to happen for me to stop talking about kanabn as a better alternative to scrum:

2010-06-28 07:52:48
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

1 When scrum thought leaders, such as Tom Mellor & Ken Schwaber stop saying scrum fails cuz ppl aren’t disciplined or motivated enuf

2010-06-28 07:52:58
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

2 When the software industry realizes that scrum is only one of several team processes to try (popularity != best)

2010-06-28 07:53:27
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

3 When the scrum community acknowledges that a team method is not necessarily the best enterprise method

2010-06-28 07:53:40
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

4 When the scrum alliance makes it clear to people that the CSM means you attended a course & nothing more

2010-06-28 07:53:51
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

5 when the scrum community recognizes there are principles you _must_ be aware of or pay the consequence

2010-06-28 07:54:27
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

i'm sure there are more, but i'm trying to take it easy today!

2010-06-28 07:54:39
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

if a mgr tellin his team that they R failing due 2lack of discipline & motivation is not respectful, why is it diff to tell an org that?

2010-06-28 08:00:16
Ron Jeffries @RonJeffries

@alshalloway are you sure those are the real reasons?

2010-06-28 08:38:57
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

@RonJeffries absolutely. what else would it be? why don't we discuss those reasons instead of inferring others.

2010-06-28 10:29:17
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

@RonJeffries the best way to not engage with ppl's ideas is to infer motivations for them that are not said & therefore not spoken to

2010-06-28 10:30:12
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

@RonJeffries ok, here are some others. many ors are being hurt because they play follow the leader & the leader is stickin to old thoughts

2010-06-28 10:32:13
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

@RonJeffries innovation is being hurt because some ppl control who can teach certain things & they don't want new ideas to spread

2010-06-28 10:32:43
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

@RonJeffries that when myself & others speak about ideas our ideas are not addressed as often as we are personally attacked

2010-06-28 10:33:07
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

@RonJeffries oh, and btw - which of those reasons do you think aren't good ones? or aren't true? (meaning they don't happen)

2010-06-28 10:50:06
Ron Jeffries @RonJeffries

@alshalloway i think those things happen. i don't think blaming "scrum" computes. + i don't see the need for you to tear down to offer value

2010-06-28 11:59:28
Al Shalloway Seeking respectful, critical feedback @alshalloway

@RonJeffries i am not blaming scrum. i have made several points. but instead of responding to them you acuse me of tearing down.

2010-06-28 12:01:40
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